tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post3453779781277731296..comments2023-09-30T10:36:23.154-05:00Comments on Accidental Historian: W@H: An Initiation to Where?Gedshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-1106140495075578032009-02-06T23:01:00.000-06:002009-02-06T23:01:00.000-06:00"Since there is no female version of Columbine/NIU...<I>"Since there is no female version of Columbine/NIU/Virginia Tech..."</I><BR/><BR/>There are some <A HREF="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNvwVMlo5bE" REL="nofollow">similar</A> <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reena_Virk" REL="nofollow">cases</A>, but usually it involves groups of women going after a single individual instead of one individual killing multiple people in one sitting.The Cynic Sagehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13207236323825707870noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-38778494422759351342009-01-20T01:33:00.000-06:002009-01-20T01:33:00.000-06:00It started with this post called "This is a Cultur...It started with <A HREF="http://accidental-historian.blogspot.com/2008/12/this-is-culture-of-destruction.html" REL="nofollow">this post</A> called "This is a Culture of Destruction."<BR/><BR/>I've retroactively applied the WatH tag to it and everything else is under it, so that should help...Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-33600862106613649462009-01-19T09:06:00.000-06:002009-01-19T09:06:00.000-06:00Er, say, Mr. Geds, sir? This series of posts you h...Er, say, Mr. Geds, sir? This series of posts you have looks tantalizing; but, er, where should I begin? Because, if a flash of a memory serves me <I>at all</I>, your current series is linked to a previous series. If so, care to point me in the direction of "Start"?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-62012300362145122312009-01-19T06:18:00.000-06:002009-01-19T06:18:00.000-06:00Ah, I love the "refute them with their own words g...Ah, I love the "refute them with their own words game". Referred to at <A HREF="http://www.youaredumb.net/" REL="nofollow">You Are Dumb</A> as "ACTUAL QUOTE TIME!" and on Fox News as "Liberal media bias." Of which there is some, just like there are imperfections in all fathers and parents generally, but I digress.<BR/><BR/>On the subject of God and the difference between imaginary parents and real ones, I just ran across a post from a couple weeks ago over at <A HREF="http://bhascience.blogspot.com/2009/01/childish-beliefs-of-dr-justin-barret.html" REL="nofollow">Epiphenom</A> that's right on-topic.<BR/><BR/>Funny how all things work together for the good of a project one is particularly interested in, no matter what that project happens to be.Fiat Lexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441862977921307080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-10232946621084558182009-01-18T01:10:00.000-06:002009-01-18T01:10:00.000-06:00Bly and Eldredge actually both engage in some swee...Bly and Eldredge actually both engage in some sweet goalpost moving on the subject. And, yes, Bly did say that. I've been a little, um, careless about citation during this little project. However, it's on page 121 of my copy of <I>Iron John</I>.<BR/><BR/>They often bring up how older men who aren't the father step in and take on father roles. So, apparently there are all kinds of real manly men out there who are ready, willing, and able to teach you. They just aren't your own father. That seems to undermine the entire premise that there's a failure of manhood.<BR/><BR/>At some point I'm going to attempt to round up the various bits of hypocrisy and play the "Refute them with their own words game." It should be interesting...Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-64347273296416512212009-01-18T00:02:00.000-06:002009-01-18T00:02:00.000-06:00Very enlightening post. I wonder, though, about pe...Very enlightening post. I wonder, though, about people claiming, as Bly apparently does, "It is interesting that we find very few examples of close or chummy father-son relationships in mythological literature." Myth is full of mentors and father figures--Odysseus in the Odyssey, Nestor in the Iliad, to take just a couple of low-hanging-fruit examples from just one mythological tradition. It's not like there are mother-daughter relationships explored in much detail, if it comes to that.<BR/><BR/>Sounds like he announces whatever he wants to about mythology in order to support the case he wants to make.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-37824918887969450262009-01-17T21:00:00.000-06:002009-01-17T21:00:00.000-06:00Thank you for that link, pnr.It actually helped me...Thank you for that link, pnr.<BR/><BR/>It actually helped me figure out one of the weirder aspects of both Eldredge's and Bly's work that I'm going to launch in to next. I wasn't sure how to parse it, but that difference between men and Men as a construct turned on the ol' lightbulb...Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-15611153966567421262009-01-17T13:31:00.000-06:002009-01-17T13:31:00.000-06:00Just chiming in to say that I've been enjoying you...Just chiming in to say that I've been enjoying your various W@H posts, especially since they coincide neatly with things I've been pondering since reading <A HREF="http://thehathorlegacy.com/the-cult-of-masculinity/" REL="nofollow">this post</A> at the Hathor Legacy.<BR/><BR/>Oh, and another example of "number names" for kids are the traditional names for Japanese boys (in order from first son through fifth son):<BR/><BR/>Ichiro<BR/>Jiro<BR/>Saburo<BR/>Shiro<BR/>GoroAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-40377204821632272452009-01-16T15:57:00.000-06:002009-01-16T15:57:00.000-06:00Hee hee, a chance to be a history pedant some more...Hee hee, a chance to be a history pedant some more.<BR/><BR/>It was generally the girls who got the numbers, but boys after the first couple were usually some variation of [father's name] [identifier]. Of course, there weren't all that many first names in the Roman world to begin with.<BR/><BR/>Either way, I was just making a point about how names don't always mean what we think they do. A lot of times children just got some convenient identifier until it was obvious they would survive. And the Biblical tradition of giving special names to the characters after some interaction with god was a Jewish thing, but far from a common thing in any other society. Part of the problem is that Eldredge keeps channeling Jewish custom as if it's representative of everyone from ancient societies. It's not.Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-82692354777439272772009-01-16T15:43:00.000-06:002009-01-16T15:43:00.000-06:00I think it was the girls who got named 'Julia ...I think it was the girls who got named 'Julia Prima,' 'Julia Secunda,' 'Julia Tertia,' etc., in Rome. (Julius was the family name.) Boys got some of that, but there was also stuff like Marcus, Gaius, & Publius.<BR/><BR/>-syfrAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-24644189407802170362009-01-16T13:52:00.000-06:002009-01-16T13:52:00.000-06:00Don't get me wrong, I love myth. I think the stori...<I>Don't get me wrong, I love myth. I think the stories we tell ourselves have great power. However, I think that Bly and Eldredge's approach to informing modern societies through ancient myths are about as useful as a pilot getting on the PA before a trip from San Francisco to Miami and informing everyone he's just made his ritual pre-flight sacrifice to the four winds and that his co-pilot has cast the bones and the portents show they'll make it just fine.</I><BR/><BR/>hey, that's the atheist's line, give it back!<BR/><BR/>seriously, though, having been through several modern day initiation rites, they don't make a bit of difference in feeling like an adult. (obviously, i have no interest in feeling like a man.)<BR/><BR/>license to drive? wheee! i can drive to . . . work and school. yeah?<BR/><BR/>18th birthday? yeah, I'm an adult . . . who still has to follow mom and dad's rules because i can't support myself.<BR/><BR/>graduated high school? college is much harder.<BR/><BR/>initiation rites don't tell you who you are. you tell you who you are.PersonalFailurehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03034292023591747601noreply@blogger.com