tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post5018521252641192015..comments2023-09-30T10:36:23.154-05:00Comments on Accidental Historian: AtF: National Rent-An-EpicGedshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comBlogger8125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-1421344567892324662010-05-04T23:19:10.629-05:002010-05-04T23:19:10.629-05:00Janet:
Meh. It doesn't really make me mad. ...Janet:<br /><br />Meh. It doesn't really make me mad. I've just noticed that it seems to happen a lot lately. It's quite odd, really.Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-90248239114096035342010-05-04T11:53:29.115-05:002010-05-04T11:53:29.115-05:00And I can feel bad about messing up Geds's nam...And I can feel bad about messing up Geds's name, 'cause I know I've done it at least once. Everyone is so used to an 's' being the result of a plural or a possessive that we often disregard the ones that are there by birthright. There's an older (60-something) woman I'm helping learn to read right now, and she has a wanton disregard for such things. She will miss an 's' that is there, and put one there that is not.Janethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13003020514718578503noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-62535739028021097892010-05-04T08:16:31.388-05:002010-05-04T08:16:31.388-05:00Thanks, Rhino of Steel. I was feeling a bit bad ab...Thanks, Rhino of Steel. I was feeling a bit bad about not remembering the details... and then I realized that the last time I read the Aeneid was nearly fifteen years ago. (And yes, I'm pretty sure we were using the non-rhymed version.)<br /><br />So now I can feel a bit bad about getting old, instead.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-80504473435510977302010-05-04T04:57:35.209-05:002010-05-04T04:57:35.209-05:00[4]It’s Geds. GEDS. Why is it that everyone seem...<i>[4]It’s Geds. GEDS. Why is it that everyone seems to drop the “s?”</i><br /><br />They're all obsessive LeGuin fans?chris yhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07556240635442613879noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-74391778580710128422010-05-03T17:48:21.828-05:002010-05-03T17:48:21.828-05:00That cliff, by the by, is the pillars or gates of ...That cliff, by the by, is the pillars or gates of Hercules, a.k.a. Gibraltar. <br /><br />There are definitely elements that make the Aeneid seem subversive, especially when you see how unheroic Aeneas is for most of the story prior to landing in Italy. The only real exception before that is his failed defencive actions in Troy. His actions in Carthage really highlight this but I think Virgil did that on purpose. It let him set up Aeneas as following his duty even though he didn't want to.<br /><br />Virgil was far more focused on laying out what it meant to be a true Roman though and used Greeks and others as contrasts. Like Neoptolemus showing no respect to the gods by killing those who sought sanctuary or Dido being a clear stand in for Cleopatra who tempts the Roman stand in, Aeneas, with her Eastern ways. <br /><br />If you really want the subversive author of that time, though, look to Ovid. The Metamorphoses in particular are hard on Apollo whom Augustus identified with. I'm just surprised it was his book on adultery that got him exiled rather than that one.<br /><br />I hope your copy of the Aeneid doesn't rhyme. It really is quite good but some of the translators tried to put in a rhyming scheme that makes the whole thing sound ridiculous.Rhino of Steelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10609356564527659197noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-76753263380380917732010-05-03T12:48:40.504-05:002010-05-03T12:48:40.504-05:00Michael:
You are correct, at least about the Gate...Michael:<br /><br />You are correct, at least about the Gate of False Dreams bit. You might also be right about the Hercules thing, but, like I said, I haven't actually read the <i>Aeneid</i> myself.<br /><br />The idea that Virgil intended to be subversive with the whole thing is entirely possible. Although if there was an attempt to compare Aeneas with Hercules, remember that Hercules' defining fault was his sometimes uncontrollable rage. That's why he had to do his twelve labors. So, really, the idea of saying, "We'll take less strength but more civility," isn't such a bad thing. And it turned out pretty well for the Romans.<br /><br />Fake Al Gore:<br /><br />That right there is a long blog post. I'll have to look at it when I've got a bit more time.Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-24966222185674002602010-05-03T12:08:44.218-05:002010-05-03T12:08:44.218-05:00It's sharing time. I found this while browsing...It's sharing time. I found this while browsing Reddit today:<br /><br />http://vridar.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/historical-facts-and-the-very-unfactual-jesus-contrasting-nonbiblical-history-with-historical-jesus-sham-methodology/<br /><br />It seems like something this audience would enjoy.Fake Al Gorehttp://paganleft.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-51153535729052157092010-05-03T11:52:35.059-05:002010-05-03T11:52:35.059-05:00"The biggest problem we have when looking in ..."The biggest problem we have when looking in to the past is we seem to think that the ancients didn’t get that. It’s like we think they were credulous morons who didn’t get the difference between reality and fiction."<br /><br />The other one I run into is the unspoken assumption that the ancients had no concept of snark or sarcasm. Everything they wrote must have been the literal truth as they understood it. (Plato is the example that immediately springs to mind, but I stumbled over it myself the first time I read Lord Byron's Don Juan.)<br /><br />I may be mixing up my classical literature, but I have this memory that the <i>Aeneid</i> is a bit more subversive than the <i>Iliad</i> or the <i>Odyssey</i>. In particular, there's a bit where they descend to the underworld, then go forth to found Rome - but when they leave the underworld, they exit through the gate of false dreams. There's also a scene where they pass the site of one of Hercules' victories - the big guy had ripped open the face of a cliff with his bare hands or somesuch - which seems to reflect Aeneas as... well, more civilized, perhaps, but definitely less heroic.<br /><br />Assuming that I *am* remembering that correctly, it's fair bet that Virgil was both writing a national epic, and directing some critical irony at precisely that sort of story.Michael Mockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06233321050691782148noreply@blogger.com