tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post5242270040443504140..comments2023-09-30T10:36:23.154-05:00Comments on Accidental Historian: This is My Truth, Tell Me Yours, Part 3Gedshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-49987165627681429202009-03-16T18:43:00.000-06:002009-03-16T18:43:00.000-06:00the "shitload of nickels" line is from Baseketball...the "shitload of nickels" line is from <I>Baseketball</I> Not the world's greatest movie, but hey, I've seen worse.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-56835728623593476542008-12-09T05:17:00.000-06:002008-12-09T05:17:00.000-06:00Prop 8 was Christian based, yes, but it went throu...Prop 8 was Christian based, yes, but it went through in FLA because of the Cubans, and in CAL because of the blacks. My theory on that is cause a kid in a school in South/East L.A. or Little Havana with 2 daddies is getting the shit kicked out of him. And it's justifiable for people who live in those neighborhoods not to want that. That's my reasoning. Not fear-mongering, "I might turn out gay just because it's now legal for me to marry Peter Gammons" (We'll move to Singapore if we have to to get that done), not "All these same sex marriages have ruined the value of my opposite sex marriage." (Opposite sex marriages have done a fine job of devaluing themselves, TYVM.) It's all about what happens next.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-13252736061302265472008-12-05T21:13:00.000-06:002008-12-05T21:13:00.000-06:00I went on a date once with someone who was just fi...<I><BR/>I went on a date once with someone who was just finishing up her Ph.D in psychology. She told me she was a "radical behaviorist," which basically meant that she came from a field that said every human behavior is the result of training (y'know, Pavlov's dogs and all). After about five minutes of conversation on the topic all I could think was, "Holy crap, I'm listening to a fundamentalist."<BR/><BR/>I (intentionally) tried discussing dreams and she responded by dismissing the concept and basically telling me I was an idiot for using words like "subconscious," because the subconscious doesn't exist. So I asked where thought comes from and she said that they're an extremely complex behavior because of [insert hand wave here]. As I recall, she used the word "thought" to define thought as behavior, which was pretty funny to me. Later on she told me that right after she chose her discipline she read that it was dying out. I said, "Gee, I wonder why."</I><BR/><BR/>To go a bit off topic, this really bugs me. I mean, she was at some actual school, yes? Where, you know, they actually study these things? And she wasn't just some undergrad, she was doing her PhD. Meaning she was actually doing research on this.<BR/><BR/>So how can you be doing all that, and end up, as, well, <I>any</I> sort of "-ist"? (In the sense the suffix is used in "radical behaviorist", not in the sense it's used in "psychologist"). Psychology is a <I>science</I>. Maybe not one with much theory behind it yet, but a science. One where people care about experimental design. One where they do experiments on, y'know, real people.<BR/><BR/>Even if you yourself don't intend to honestly study psychology, how can you be completing a PhD, at a school, where there are actual psychologists, who know their stuff, and how to design experiments, and not only end up with a conclusion that is obviously wrong, regarding not a field you're unfamiliar with but one you're completing your PhD in, but also sound so certain of it? Hell, a classic problem scientists have in speaking to the public is that even things they are certain of, to many people they don't sound certain of, because of all the qualifiers they use to make sure they're being sufficiently precise.<BR/><BR/>This just shouldn't be happening. It makes no sense. Maybe in a department that is less "studying real things" and more "making shit up because there's nobody to contradict us", but psychology's supposed to have gotten past that by now.<BR/><BR/>Or, in short, in any science, "-ist" should always be "one who studies", not "one who follows" or "one who espouses". (Although admittedly it gets a bit fuzzy at, say, "string theorist", where because there's so little to back up the theory, you're probably only going to be studying it if you expect it to be right. But that's still not even close to what's going on with that "radical behaviorist". Also, awful math pun: Algebraic geometers are radical idealists!)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-37741429616145017162008-12-04T14:07:00.000-06:002008-12-04T14:07:00.000-06:00"As long as we're building a wall between Christia..."As long as we're building a wall between Christian and non-Christian in America we will not be able to move forward as a society."<BR/><BR/>I think I may agree with you. At least, I agree about the end goal. Reducing the social and political influence of the religious nuts would do a great deal to make the world a better place. Maybe the best way to do that is to expose the church to the world outside; I was reading, somewhere, that the single best way to cure someone of homophobia is to reveal that one of their close family members or friends is gay, so I suppose it might work out. But, I still worry that exposing crazy ideas to the mainstream will just make crazy mainstream. <BR/><BR/>When it comes to abortion, for example, you have your crazy pro-life fringe that wants to ban birth control, but then there's the middle, people who like the idea of babies but are willing to let other people make their own decisions. The middle is the decisive voting block, and if the pro-life fringe successfully frames the debate as about cute little babies instead of about women's power to control their own bodies, abortion rights could go out the window. <BR/><BR/>So would breaking down the barriers between pop culture and church culture act more like finding out your brother is gay, or like putting up billboards with pictures of babies and anti-abortion messages? That's the key question for me, but I don't know the answer.Tayihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00475323690049542329noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-87750868605855485872008-12-04T08:53:00.000-06:002008-12-04T08:53:00.000-06:00Um, way to dismiss the topic out of hand. You're ...Um, way to dismiss the topic out of hand. You're perfectly allowed to not give a shit, but there's a vast gulf between, "I don't care," and, "I'm actively opposing your right to participate in this aspect of our society." And saying that it's just an attempt to assuage my liberal guilt isn't going to get you anywhere.<BR/><BR/>This isn't about liberal guilt. It's about liberalism. Liberal guilt is simply the thing that rose up to explain why people don't read the Bible, but still feel that there are things they are supposed to do, yet are not doing them. What I'm talking about here is classic liberalism in the sense of the Enlightenment.<BR/><BR/>Civil Rights are an ever marching issue that are constantly balanced between the need to give as many people as possible the right to do as much as possible and the need to defend from the tyranny of the majority. I've already argued that sex is the least of the concerns with gay marriage, and that from a societal perspective it is important to give partners of both same and opposite sexes the same rights in time of crisis and that to do so in any way other than granting marriage would be a violation of the ruling in <I>Brown v. Board</I> and, therefore, should be struck down by the SCOTUS. This is a purely logical argument reached without any sense of guilt whatsoever. Gay marriage neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket and a lack of gay marriages unnecessarily removes important civil rights from some citizens of the United States who have committed no crime (well, except for Sodomy Laws, which have now been ruled un-Constitutional).<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, look at the groups who voted for and backed Prop 8 the most. They were largely (only?) religious organizations and mostly the fundamentalist spectrum thereof. This is a tyranny of the majority situation and exactly the sort of thing the Enlightenment wanted to fight against, especially since the anti-gay marriage arguments were built on lies and fear-mongering. There is no logical reason why allowing gay marriage will devalue existing marriages or cause otherwise not-gay people to suddenly become gay. Yet we're supposed to believe that will magically happen. Simply having the right doesn't mean people are going to run right out and do it. I mean, by that logic I should be married right now...Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-65865034647390732572008-12-02T11:51:00.000-06:002008-12-02T11:51:00.000-06:00I saw the Jonas Brothers too, for the first time o...I saw the Jonas Brothers too, for the first time on thxgvg. thanks to dvr's fast forwarding, that was 5 minutes I got back almost immediately.<BR/><BR/>I disagree with your stance on gay marriage. I don't want to lay out all my arguments, but I believe it's perfectly alright to not give a shit about gay marriage if you aren't looking to get one. I also think this is a big exploitation of liberal guilt, and I'm not into manipulation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-64305979570659669442008-12-01T15:38:00.000-06:002008-12-01T15:38:00.000-06:00Yeah, evangelicals have adopted Bono as one of the...Yeah, evangelicals have adopted Bono as one of their own, apparently without bothering to actually listen to any of U2's lyrics. It's just a given that he's Christian or something.<BR/><BR/>My favorite story was the time I was watching some video the international parachurch organization I used to work with put out to convince people to go to some seminar or retreat or something. All of the sudden I thought, "Wait, am I listening to 'Still Haven't Found What I'm Looking For?'" I was about seven months away from losing all respect for that group, but overlaying that song with stuff about going deeper in to faith didn't really help...<BR/><BR/>And I don't know how "back" I am just yet. I'm still pretty busy, but the whole need to write thing is staying pretty itchy, so, yeah.Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-52001995548416935542008-12-01T15:02:00.000-06:002008-12-01T15:02:00.000-06:00*pouncewhee!* Geds is back! I heard you had been c...*pouncewhee!* Geds is back! I heard you had been crazybusy of late, so I'd stopped checking for a day or two, alas for me. Good to see your excellent words again!<BR/><BR/>(Also, in case no one else had told you, Dave's phone is working as of Saturday. We really must arrange to visit you sometime!)<BR/><BR/>Aye, Christian congregations I've been in have contented themselves with sending out representatives on "missions trips" to suitably exotic locations. Or paying charitable organizations with slick Powerpoint presentations to help people for them.<BR/><BR/>But then our very own flutterheaded Paula, at whose hippie views my relatives will sigh and frown and shake their heads, spent her T-Day volunteering at a place that gives away classy, restaurant style T-Day feasts to needy families. And bugging me and her son to go with her next year, despite his *coughcough* great love of socializing with strangers and my equally great love of doing things which closely resemble working at a restaurant. <BR/><BR/>But it's the thought that counts. At least when encouraging others to participate in one's current favorite form of admirable charitable action.<BR/><BR/>I'm actually surprised Bono was able and willing to jump through all the necessary hoops, and equally surprised that the Six Flag Over Jesus crowd was able and willing to let him. I hadn't realized U2 had evangelical street cred. Have no churchy people ever heard "Hold Me, Thrill Me, Kiss Me, Kill Me"?<BR/><BR/>Though I suppose there are enough Xtians who recognize the AIDS epidemic in Africa, at least, as a real epidemic whose victims need real help, rather than a "punishment from God" sort of epidemic. While there are few people who would come right out and say that people who gets AIDS are being divinely punished for promiscuity, many more suspect it silently in their hearts. And are less likely to donate to AIDS-related charities because of it.<BR/><BR/>And props for an efficient and cogent summary of the case for gay marriage. Marriage is primarily an economic institution! Whatever else it may be depends upon the beliefs espoused by the spouses! Why do people not get that this is a classic separation of church and state controversy?<BR/><BR/>Saw something over on Pharyngula that might amuse you, by the by. Crazy guy who thinks that because TV broadcasts have monitors visible to persons on set, those monitors are of course displaying him, the viewer. <BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2008/11/i_dont_get_email_and_email_i_w.php" REL="nofollow">Emails PZ wishes he didn't get</A><BR/><BR/>All that's really necessary to become that paranoid is to confuse the "things you fear" with "things that can actually hurt you." Puts one strongly in mind of the sort of people who will say, "Because these people behave and believe differently than me, their behaviors and beliefs constitute an attack on me and my beliefs." <BR/><BR/>Once you make the mental shift, it's all only a matter of degree.Fiat Lexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441862977921307080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-27836491523237281172008-12-01T14:57:00.000-06:002008-12-01T14:57:00.000-06:00This comment has been removed by the author.Fiat Lexhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10441862977921307080noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3375512083268389933.post-33605230442279289522008-11-30T22:22:00.000-06:002008-11-30T22:22:00.000-06:00Don't feel bad. If I had a nickel for every time ...Don't feel bad. If I had a nickel for every time I forgot to email someone back I'd have a shitload of nickels...<BR/><BR/>Also, I don't remember where that line came from, but I love it.<BR/><BR/>I can't presume to tell you much of anything about the mental health profession, but I do have one story. Which I may or may not have told already somewhere around here, but it totally fits.<BR/><BR/>I went on a date once with someone who was just finishing up her Ph.D in psychology. She told me she was a "radical behaviorist," which basically meant that she came from a field that said every human behavior is the result of training (y'know, Pavlov's dogs and all). After about five minutes of conversation on the topic all I could think was, "Holy crap, I'm listening to a fundamentalist."<BR/><BR/>I (intentionally) tried discussing dreams and she responded by dismissing the concept and basically telling me I was an idiot for using words like "subconscious," because the subconscious doesn't exist. So I asked where thought comes from and she said that they're an extremely complex behavior because of [insert hand wave here]. As I recall, she used the word "thought" to define thought as behavior, which was pretty funny to me. Later on she told me that right after she chose her discipline she read that it was dying out. I said, "Gee, I wonder why."<BR/><BR/>Long story short, if I'm reading your comment right, I can totally understand why you (with you being both "jessa" and the editorial you) would see a problem. I can also totally see where there would be a massive problem. From a scientific perspective our knowledge of the human mind is mostly telling us that there's a hell of a lot we don't know yet. Yet the various schools of psychology have a tendency to behave in ways similar to religions. They have their holy books, i.e. the texts written by Freud or Skinner or Bandura, none of whom knew everything on the topic, especially as we move back a hundred years or so. By the time they've gotten to the point where they can set up a practice, they've given a lot of time and money to their education and are kind of invested in the whole thing. Add to that the general human tendency to say, "You believe something different than me. You're wrong and I'm right," and you've got a recipe for disaster.<BR/><BR/>I would like to think that your average psychologist is only interested in helping people, but I would not be surprised to learn that some (many, most?) are even more interested in proving themselves right and delivering papers at conferences...Gedshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15047239425466517786noreply@blogger.com